Talk:American Life

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American Life has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

American Life is the main article in the American Life series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
February 22, 2010	Peer review	Reviewed
April 7, 2010	Good article nominee	Not listed
June 22, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed
January 8, 2015	Good topic candidate	Promoted
Current status: Good article

Madonna Top‑importance

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Albums

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Women in Music

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American Life: Mixshow Mix EP

This vinyl EP was released this year as part of Record Store Day to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the studio album. Should this not be included on the album track listing as it contains 8 remixes of songs from the album? We have a 35th Anniversary streaming version of True Blue on that pages track listing and also the 30th Anniversary of Like A Prayer on its page. --jwad.... ^{blah | blah | blah} 09:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Die Another Day

"Die Another Day" was officially recorded for inclusion on BOTH the OST of the movie, AND "American Life".  Madonna stated herself when the single was first released that it would definitely be on her new album.  It's a very different situation to "American Pie", which was only included on the international version of "Music".  "Live To Tell" was specifically recorded for "At Close Range", but then was chosen to be the lead single from "True Blue" (even though the album wasn't released until months later).  How can a massive hit single that appears on all versions of an album not be considered a single from that album?  Is there a law or regulation that specifies that a single can only be attributed to one particular album?  Actually, no, there isn't, because "Kids" is listed as the second single from Robbie Williams' "Sing When You're Winning" and the third from Kylie Minogue's "Light Years".  Given this, why can't "Die Another Day" be listed as an official single from "American Life"?  It's certainly not merely an "album track".121.223.126.136 (talk) 16:10, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Source for this? —Indian:BIO · ^{[ ChitChat ]} 15:47, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After further research, I think the IP's comment is kinda right. "Die Another Day" has different case with "American Pie". "Die Another Day" is included on all releases of American Life and it's not a bonus track, it's part of the album's permanent tracklisting. "American Pie" is only a bonus track and only available as the closing track on the certain edition of Music. "Die Another Day" is really similiar to At Close Range soundtrack "Live to Tell" (March 1986). "Live to Tell" was released months before True Blue, while "Papa Don't Preach was released only a few weeks before the album. If we consider "American Life" as the first single for American Life, then "Papa Don't Preach" should have been the first single for True Blue. What do you guys think? Should we state that "Die Another Day" is the single from Die Another Day soundtrack and American Life? Bluesatellite (talk) 01:49, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Bluesatellite: please refer to "Radar" which we have to consider also, since the song was present on both albums. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 08:54, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What is the consensus on this issue? Has anyone come up with a reason as to why Die Another Day cannot be considered the first single from two different albums or is it really just personal opinion that prevents this?1.120.160.29 (talk) 16:31, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is precedence present already, please see my last comment above. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 17:30, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Radar"? How is that precedence for this particular situation? "Radar" was released on two different albums by the same artist and released as an official single from the second album (by that same artist). How does this prove that "Die Another Day" can't be considered an official single from two albums released by different "artists"? If it does, then "Kids" by Robbie Williams and Kylie Minogue should be revised (why can't "Kids" be used as precedence?).1.120.160.29 (talk) 01:34, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be daft. "Kids" was used actively by two artists who were both actively promoting their albums at the same time. "Die Another Day" was used in the James Bond soundtrack and was never originally intended for American Life and not promoted as a vehicle for the album, rather a promotion for the James Bond film and soundtrack. No it will not be listed in American Life as a single from the album. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 07:54, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Don't be daft"? Isn't there a rule about resorting to personal insults in discussions? I'm not impressed, nor am I convinced about your argument. Madonna herself stated back in November 2002 (during an interview with Rick Dees for KIIS FM) that "Die Another Day" would be appearing "on my next album". How can you assert that it was "never originally intended for "American Life" when Madonna herself said when it was released as a single that it would be appearing on her next album? I think that, rather than stating uncategorically that "it will not be listed...as a single from the album", we should be seeking consensus.1.120.160.29 (talk) 10:51, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As I previously stated, this case is similar to True Blue. "Live to Tell" was originally a soundtrack to promote At Close Range (just watch the music video) and was later included on her own album. "Die Another Day" was also intended for American Life (per interview with KIIS FM, 11 November 2002). Both "Live to Tell" and "Die Another Day" were included on every edition and every format of their respective studio albums, unlike "American Pie" (a bonus track on some editions of Music). Billboard also credited American Life for having seven top-ten singles, where "Die Another Day" is counted. Bluesatellite (talk) 00:47, 26 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So how do we go about reaching a consensus on this issue (rather than someone simply saying "this is what is happening - end of discussion"?1.120.160.29 (talk) 14:19, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is it usual to have to wait 10 months for a response to a query? Bluesatellite and I have both presented information to refute IB's claim that "Die Another Day" was "never originally intended for inclusion on 'American Life'", but nothing has happened yet. Should I make the change myself and see if that prompts a response...?49.197.231.62 (talk) 10:24, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think make the change. It's evident "Die Another Day" is a single from American Life. It has always been part of the promotional campaign also for the album including remixes on the American Life single. BiebersBoyMendes (talk) 00:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Grammar

Someone has been editiing this page with very bad grammar and english. Can this all be reverted please. Thanks JWAD ^{Communicate|Nicely} 16:51, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

excuse my bad english. Tbhotch^{Talk2 Me} 16:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and why is this even nominated for GA with the huge amount of unsourced content? Whoever is editing it, should look at the otehr GA Madonna albums and then do the development. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 10:58, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I requested a per review before (even Legolas helped) and no one told me where are the things wrong. I don't speak an advanced English, so I don't know what is right and what is wrong. I looked other Madonna articles (the only good albums are True Blue, Ray of Light and Confessions) and I copy the same sections, so please don't blame me for a bad grammar and misinformation throughout the article. Tbhotch^Talk ^C. 01:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other comments

How can this album be the tenth studio album while the entry for Confessions on the Dance Floor is also stated to be her tenth studio album?

--

This page documents the trick that Madonna played on music downloaders. Won't it also be a good idea to document the retaliation that happened when someone cracked the www.madonna.com web server, and uploaded the entire album in MP3? As shown here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/madonnasplash1.html Scollk 03:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

who in their right mind could say this entry is not biased? The language used and lack of references are shocking! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.223.226.6 (talk) 16:52, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Deadlink

There are two deadlinks in which I cannot find archived versions from web.archive.org:

–MuZemike 23:30, 28 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Patty Hearst

I took out the Patty Hearst SLA image because of the lack of a fair use rationale, and the lack of a reference here which would have been required for the rationale. However, there are bits and pieces of Patty Hearst references around the web, mostly iffy internet and pop culture sources. Here are some of the best ones, in reverse chron order:

Hong, Catherine (February 24, 2009) "Why Madonna Wore the Beckham Dress... And More". From W Editors' Blog, W Magazine. Catherine Hong is a senior editor at W Magazine, but she did not originate the connection to Patty Hearst. Her interview subject, Madonna's costume designer, Arianne Phillips, does not mention Hearst.
Bernstein, Jacob (August 2008) "Madonna's Costumes for her Sticky and Sweet Tour". WWDLifestyle. Jacob Bernstein is a contributor to WWD fashion news, not on staff.
Segal, David (June 15, 2004) "Prime Madonna: In a Show That's More Circus Than Concert, the 45-Year-Old Ringmaster Reigns". The Washington Post. Segal is on staff at the Post.
Dominic, Serene (May 14, 2003) "Madonna: American Life". Metro Times, Music Reviews. Serene Dominic is a music critic for Metro Times and has written 89 music reviews for the website. She has authored two books on pop music subjects.

If one or more of these references are judged as suitable, something about Patty Hearst can be returned to the article. Binksternet (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Folk music

I'm objecting to referring to the album as a folk album. I understand that Slant is a highly reputable source, but I think we are giving it undue weight as there isn't any other press mentioned in the article referring to it as a folk album. As it's a fairly recent album from a huge star, there should be further options that describe the album's folk tendencies. I think when the author Sal writes it's in the folk tradition, he's referring to an influence. Other authors have also brought this up. The Chicago Tribune described American Life's "folk-rock earnestness" [1] Allmusic described it as "between singer/songwriterisms and skimming of current club culture." [2]. Folk is not mentioned in other articles at all from The Guardian, Billboard compares two songs to Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchel but that hardly puts the entire album in the category. NME goes on about the electronic basis of the music rather than any folk style. Spin described it as "faux-folkie". Slant seems to be the only one that really stressed the pure folk music tendency of the album while other describe hybrids of electronic music or how it's not purely "true" folk. I think for these reasons, it should be removed unless more sources can be dug up. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:37, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It has been 5 days and there has been no further discussion so I will assume consensus. Andrzejbanas (talk) 10:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I have to revert your change for these sources:

It doesn't matter how many sources call it folk album, it fulfils WP:V whether you agree or not. Bluesatellite (talk) 10:58, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:American Life/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Article requirements:

Y All the start class criteria
Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
Y At least one section of prose (excluding the lead section)
Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs
Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
Y Categorisation at least by artist and year
Y A casual reader should learn something about the album. Andrzejbanas (talk) 07:14, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

==Re-assessment== Start class:

Y A reasonably complete infobox
Y A lead section giving an overview of the album
Y A track listing
Y Reference to at least primary personnel by name (must specify performers on the current album; a band navbox is insufficient)
Y Categorisation at least by artist and year

C class:

Y All the start class criteria
Y A reasonably complete infobox, including cover art
Y At least one section of prose (in addition to the lead section)
Y A track listing containing track lengths and authors for all songs
Y A "personnel" section listing performers, including guest musicians.

B class:

Y All the C class criteria
Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
N No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources.
Y No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS

Album information, Title, cover and direction and Downloads and website hack lack a lot of citations. This is what's holding it back from a b-status article! Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:08, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

===Re-assessment=== B class:

Y All the C class criteria
Y A completed infobox, including cover art and most technical details
Y A full list of personnel, including technical personnel and guest musicians
Y No obvious issues with sourcing, including the use of blatantly improper sources.
Y No significant issues exist to hamper readability, although it may not rigorously follow WP:MOS

Last edited at 04:31, 11 March 2010 (UTC). Substituted at 07:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Retrospective American Life review

Guardian just posted a new review of American Life, i think it should be inlcuded in the main page. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/sep/26/my-daft-punk-review-hasnt-aged-so-well-guardian-critics-on-getting-it-wrong?CMP=soc_567 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnny Gnecco (talk • contribs) 00:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

REFS

"800 000 ... albums « American Life » vendus en France, pour 3 millions d' exemplaires dans le monde." (November 2005; Julien Bellver), pag. 26 — Mobiles magazine
platinum in 7 countries & gold in other 16 countries (as of June 2003 = two months) | Note: only 18 countries listed here with certifications.
Czech Republic: number 1 (done, IFPI source provided)
48,000 copies (first week) in France | Charts in France
American Life, qui sera un semi-flop (6 millions d'exemplaires vendus) | GQ Magazine
Gold in the first day (Germany) | Hamburger Morgenpost
Madonna's reponse to critics on American Life: Los comentaristas han estado escribiendo de mí por 20 años. “Eso no es nada nuevo. Por lo que sé aún tengo montones de admiradores y vendo muchos discos. ¿Me importa lo que digan los críticos de mí? No, y no leo sus comentarios” (Spanish)
3/5 by Icelandic newspaper Morgunblaðið
First-week sales in Zaragoza (a city from Spain)

Reappraisal

Billboard 2018

--Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:55, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"On September 11, 2001, suicide bombers hijacked two jet airliners and crashed into the World Trade Center, resulting in the death of nearly 3,000 people."

This one sentence has so many things wrong with it, but I don't have the book near to hand so I can't say if the source says anything differently or how we replace it with another source to support a sentence that says instead, "On September 11, 2001, al-Qaeda terrorists killed nearly 3,000 people by hijacking four jet airliners and crashing them in coordinated suicide attacks, one into each of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center and another into the Pentagon, with the fourth failing to reach a target." Or something like that. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 07:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]