Talk:Fine Gael

Fine Gael was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 4, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Climate change and the environment

In case someone is interested in improving the article, it currently doesn't appear to cover the party's views on climate, the environment and related regulations. —Paleo Neonate – 20:07, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The History section of this article needs to be completely redone

Considering how other political party articles such as People's Party for Freedom and Democracy, Scottish National Party, Social Democratic Party of Germany, or Venstre (Denmark) are written on Wikipedia, the obvious and most used format for the History of a political party should be a summarised, condensed version of the party's history. What's currently there is a wall of text punctuated by dates. I don't think it's good at all and it's come across as if the article is avoiding explaining the history of the party. The history section for the Fine Gael article should be a shorter summary of what's contained in the History of Fine Gael article.

It doesn't need to be extensive, especially at first, because that would require a herculean effort on behalf of one person to do, but even if it was switched to a simple two-paragraph summary of the party's history, that could be used by future editors as a base to expand and flesh out that section. CeltBrowne (talk) 02:03, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to change the bulleted list into prose. Adding some independent, reliable sources in the process would be highly appreciated. The Banner talk 09:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's really good work, CeltBrowne - well done! Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 09:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not a christian democratic party any more

Someone is repeatedly claiming that Fine Gael is not a christian democratic party. Unfortunately, (s)he decided to back that up with a column and a very conservative magazine. Both sources are in my opinion unsuitable for a stance on a controversial subject. So I have reverted the edit. Note: this also touches that discussion about abortion and abortion rights. The Banner talk 23:00, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good revert - who are the "many"? FH-E is not Legion. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 23:30, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Someone is repeatedly claiming that Fine Gael is not a christian democratic party" = misrepresentation of my edit. I said that there are objections to the description of the party as Christian democratic. But for public interest, I myself do not think that this is an unsubstantiated objection and a simple comparison of Christian Democracy and Fine Gael#Ideology_and_policies is enough to substantiate that objection. Aside from people saying "Fine Gael are Christian democratic", what actually makes them a Christian democratic party? Their economic policy (market economics + support for a degree of welfare) is pretty in line with the British Conservative Party yet they're not labelled as Christian democrats.

If the issue is with the phrasing "many" then it can be amended to "some", but the point still stands that there are objections to the use of the term "Christian democratic", including from one of the party's former Senators, to describe Fine Gael. The fact that none of the major works on Christian democracy published in the last 15 years (ex. Accetti 2019 & Wolfram 2007) even mention Fine Gael in passing is VERY telling. Horarum

And how relevant is it for the whole party that a few disgruntled people are claiming this? Do you have reliable proof that this is a wide spread opinion? The Banner talk 20:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

is this your second try, after the earlier attempt in February? The Banner talk 20:10, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, that edit in February isn't me. As I already stated, I am not contesting the fact the party is referred to as Christian democratic, but I am simply including that others have contested the description of the party as Christian democratic. Fine Gael bears similarity to no other Christian democratic parties and fits in line with Conservative liberalism more than it does Christian democracy. As I suggested, compare the pages Christian democracy and Fine Gael#Ideology and Policies... Horarum

You are simply stating that one or two disgruntled people are opposing that notion, without explaining why it is relevant for the party. The Banner talk 00:57, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Banner and Horarum: Christian democracy is a very broad term stretching from some pretty conservative parties like KD or CSU to social liberals like ProDG or MoDem but i think FG and FF are labelled too similarly. I would rather move it to the ideology section, National Coalition Party only has Liberal conservatism in the infobox.

@Vacant0: what do you think? Braganza (talk) 10:44, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Citations for Christian democracy in this article are over a decade old, excluding Nordsieck who does not regularly update these labels. I was only able to find a few sources that are less than a decade old: Żukiewicz, Domagała, 2018; Suiter, Farrell, Harris, 2017; Magin, Vigen, 2021; Torney, 2019. Vacant0 (talk) 11:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think Christian Democracy is not really important to describe FG Braganza (talk) 12:11, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Christian democracy should be kept. It’s still pretty central to the party’s ideological tilt, and besides, with rare exceptions political parties do not completely alter their ideology in rapid spaces of time.— Autospark (talk) 13:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

could you show when they clearly presented themselves as christian democratic Braganza (talk) 15:18, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That’s not how this works, and you know this. How we categorise and describe political parties is based on what third-party sources tell us, not how an organisation may (or may not) self-describe itself as.— Autospark (talk) 19:30, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Autospark: did you saw what Vacant wrote? It is not like they are called mainly that way as i saw it. (By the way even one of the sources does not say that they are christian democratic as long i can see it in the preview) Braganza (talk) 22:28, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

wow this sounded more aggressive than i thought Braganza (talk) 19:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with User:Autospark: "Christian democracy" should stay. Not only Fine Gael is a EPP member and sits in the "European People's Party (Christian Democrats)" group in the European Parliament, but really "Christian democracy" is at the core of the party's ideology. Of course, Christian-democratic parties in 2022 are different from how they were 30 or 60 years ago. One possibility is to say that "Christian democracy" is dead and that there are no more Christian-democratic parties. Differently, I think that also current parties can be Christian-democratic, at least judging their heritage, history and values. That is true for Fine Gael, as well as the German CDU, several Italian parties and so on. --Checco (talk) 16:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

fair but i am not sure about the full christian democratic identity of Fine Gael, not every EPP party is christian democratic Braganza (talk) 16:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sincere apologies for sounding needlessly aggressive earlier, Braganza. I agree with you that not all EPP parties are necessarily Christian democratic, certainly not since the 1999 changes within the EPP, but FG would be an example of a party whose roots are in the Christian democratic tradition.-- Autospark (talk) 21:21, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

oops, i mean i sounded more aggressive than i wanted but thank you for your answer, as i said i do not know how christian democratic FG traditionally is Braganza (talk) 21:26, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, it's sometimes difficult to categorise both FG and its rival Fianna Fáil, as they ideologically overlap, and both have elements of the Christian democratic tradition. (FWIW, I would describe both as big tent centre-right parties, in which there are liberal, conservative and Christian democratic currents.)-- Autospark (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

it makes it more complicated that FG is a more proper conservative-liberal party (and long-standing ally of Labour) while FF is more populist and big tent but also conservative Braganza (talk) 21:59, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They're both conservative. Two cheeks of the same arse, effectively. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 23:17, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While continuing to be in favour of keeping "Christian democracy" in the infobox, I have to say that I agree with all the above comments. The Irish party system is very peculiar. It is true that FG has been a stable ally of FF, but also the latter sometimes sided with Labour and nowadays seems more keen to an alliance with the left-wing populists SF! To add more complication, while FG is an EPP member, FF sides with ALDE. By the way, both FG and FF are broadly conservative, but the former has Christian-democratic roots and a more liberal posture these days. --Checco (talk) 15:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

historical fascism ideology

Fine gael for one was founded by a fascist leader, quite a famous fascist leader called eoin o'duffy, i don't believe its disputed not to mention fine gaels name comes from the blueshirts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Judeobasquelanguage (talk • contribs) 08:53, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

O'Duffy only later drifted into fascism. The Banner talk 11:40, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

O'Duffy had founded the Blueshirts before Fine Gael so that can't be chronologically accurate. StairySky (talk) 17:27, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Centre-right classification

What is the justification for continuing to classify FG as "Centre-right"? All of the citations for doing so are between 10 and 25 years old. Since then most significant changes led by FG led or involved government have been left wing or liberal (e.g legalising gay marriage, legalising abortion, as well as attempting to change the constitution in 2024 to remove reference to a woman's role in the home and to remove the special role of marriage).

On their website, the party describes themselves as a party of the centre: https://www.finegael.ie/the-party/our-values/

It seems to me that the centre-right classification is no longer accurate, and they should be reclassified as belonging to the centre. 2A02:8085:B13E:4700:61F6:6BD8:DDB3:D4 (talk) 10:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]